I pirate anime, but hey, it doesn’t remove a product from the shelves. If someone wishes to buy a DVD, he or she may. I am not denying the store a sale. I would have probably never bought the show even if downloading was not an option. However, now that I do have a (somewhat) steady source of income, I will start buying DVDs; the US anime industry needs to stay alive somehow, right? Heck, I even bought Company of Heroes (PC) and Sins of a Solar Empire (PC). In fact, the only thing I’ve probably pirated in the past six months is anime.
But the reason I didn’t (and still don’t) consider piracy all that bad is because it isn’t directly hurting sales. I would simply resort to other sources for music (Pandora, Last.fm, free music), movies (Hulu and TV), and PC games/ROMs (online Flash games, the 75% of my GameCube library I have not finished) if illegal downloads weren’t available. By downloading anything on the Internet, I am not removing a copy from the server I obtain the file from. I am simply making another copy on my computer. Stealing a physical object, however, is a much different story. That is actually preventing the source from earning a profit on that item.
Oddly enough, even though I pirate anime, I feel a weird need to buy manga. That’s mostly because I can’t read manga on the computer. It just doesn’t feel “right.” Or at least, I’ll borrow some from the library because those manga volumes are actually meant to be shared.
When I’m browsing my two local bookstores, Barnes & Noble and Borders, for some manga, I always see those people reading manga in the aisles. You know perfectly well who they are. Those damn leechers that read manga without paying for it.
Image from NinjaDeathMonk’s Flickr account.
Why these freeloaders suck
1) They block the aisles of the bookstore
2) They ruin the spines of the books
3) They ruin the actual pages
You know how it is, you’re trying to navigate through the manga section of the bookstore to find a title – but, damn it, someone’s reading right in front of the section with the title you want. It makes it a damn hassle for everyone when people are on the floor, lying about without consideration for anyone else.
When I read books, I take great care to preserve the spine’s smoothness; I hate when the spines are wrinkled because they have been bent. Why is it that all of the people I see in bookstores disregard the fact that someone may actually buy the book? I cringed every time I found the title I wanted but the spine had those ridges and wrinkles, indicating that someone has read this already.
But most of all, they get their grubby little hands all over the books. I’ve seen people eating chips and pizza and – although the employees should have prevented them from bringing food into the store – then touching the books. It horrifies and angers me. I might actually buy that, so why the hell are you rubbing grease all over the pages?!
Because of this, I visit this Japanese store that sells anime goods instead. They keep their manga in shrinkwrap (all of it, not just some titles). I think shrinkwrapping is necessary to prevent freeloaders, not necessarily to “protect the children.” Maybe have sample copies of each series (not every volume, just one for each series) for people to look at and shrink wrap the rest?
What are your experiences and thoughts on these bookstore leechers and freeloaders? Anything you’ve done because of them? Are you one yourself?
zero leechers in my case, because there are like two manga stores in the whole country(Israel).
so when i happen to be visiting, very few people are looking at the manga and there is plenty of room and the books are being kept clean of greasy hands and no damaged spines (its easy to prevent people with food to come in because its a very small store).
the store is too far from home so i buy my manga online (because its actually cheaper than buying it at the store [even for stores with high shipping rates]) thankfully i found a store that sells manga with zero (!!!) shipping chrages ( http://www.bookdepository.co.uk).
“1) They block the aisles of the bookstore”
They suck, alright. Very irksome. Especially those teens who think that it’s their personal space. Ugh.
I love going to bookstores, but I buy my manga online.
I think your issue all comes down to respect, or perhaps, more bluntly, “this is why we can’t have nice things.”
I’ll admit I’m one of Them, the people who read manga off the shelf. I do, however, attempt to be polite; I’ll either sit at the cafe, or lean against a shelf (but not sit). And I hope I’m not damaging the books too much. Whether such a thing is still an issue to you, is another discussion topic I suppose.
But going back to your first argument, I have to wonder how many people who read manga at the shelves actually buy it. If ‘previewing’ a title was not an option, how many sales would that (indirectly or directly) cost the industry? I’ve been turned on to an anime or two thanks to its respective manga, after all.
I understand that ‘manga freeloaders’ are an issue but you have to consider the side effects of trying to stop such a thing (a similar predicament to what the industry as a whole is in). I suppose the sample copy idea is smart enough; but what’s to stop people from just ripping the shrink-wrap off? I know people that impolite; and for sure, that’s a lost sale, as opposed to when sometimes the manga is treated nicely.
In the end, I’m just arguing for my free stuff, I suppose.
I’ve got to admit to doing this. I’ve read almost all of Love Hina this way. The worst part is, I completely agree with you.
Luckily, my local Borders has quite a large selection of manga, and so usually has second copies of popular manga. This doesn’t excuse the fact that I don’t check if there is a second copy first. I try not to block the aisles. If I’m reading beside the manga shelf, I will always stand and move to accomodate people looking at the same place as mine. I think it would be rude to sit in front of the shelf. That’s why I usually take a volume and find the nearest comfy seat or sofa to read. I’m not going to ruin the manga with greasy hands or by ruining the spine, because I will probably be the next person in to buy it, because I also buy manga as well as freeload.
This is piracy, there’s no doubt. But downloading manga scanlations from the internet or getting fansubs of an anime is also piracy. I’m not sure you can classify how “bad” piracy is once you’ve stepped over the line of being illegal. It’s basically the same. The thing is, manga in a bookshop is usually really expensive.
I’m working to change my ways. Really, I am. I agree with you about these people, myself included.
this reminds me of the lucky star episode when Konata picked up the magazine from the middle of the pile and Kagamin was like “why?” – “since this one’s cleaner” (or something to that extent)
Oh God! I really hate when people mess up the spine of a book. Why they hell do people do that?
Anyways, I think that shrink wrapping is good to keep out the freeloaders. But whenever I encounter it in the store its always on a volume that i actually want to check out. But I don’t sit on the floor reading or messing the books up. I just browse a few pages to see if it something I will like then either buy I it or put it back.
Usually I don’t buy my manga at the bookstore because I can usually get a better price online and I don’t have to worry about books with messed up spines.
Yea, I buy manga too because I do enough reading off a computer screen as it is already. Though I get my manga off a second-hand bookstore so I can’t really complain about messed up spines or people blocking the NARROW aisles reading because that’s what everyone there practically does -_-”
Of all the manga I read, I buy about 3/4′s of it. The rest I read in Barnes and Nobles. B&N has always seemed to support reading in the store with an abundance of chairs and such. My mom and I go to read manga every weekend, and read at a table while being very careful not to mess up the books at all. While I did once get cover a little bent looking for some reason, I decided to go ahead and buy it for that reason. Since I still support the manga industry with what I do buy, and even help the bookstore through sales of drinks and such, I really don’t feel bad about legally reading in a store, as long as I’m careful with the books and don’t disturb others or take up space in the isle.
appparently, B&N is a really shitty place to work at.
I’ve never seen these people but their presence is evidence… There has been times I so wanted a volume and the only one available is creased and smudged, to which I cringe because I can’t and just plain will not buy that – technically it is now used.
With the closest large book store to me closing, I may have to go to japanese stores now for my manga… to which I am hopeful I will not get any of this…
I hate it when some manga hobo is hogging the reaching stools at Kinokuniya so you can’t get at the high up manga (yes Kinokuniya actually has high shelves, so this is a problem. Same problem when I want to get at the Neil Gaiman ‘The Sandman’ graphic novels, and Alan Moore too). DAMMIT I WANT TO REACH THE GENSHIKEN MANGA BUT CAN’T BECAUSE SOME DUDE IS READING NARUTO ON THE STOOL!
It happens every time and sometimes the dude doesn’t speak English and won’t get off the stool even if I ask politely. This is not a slur on the good Japanese people who gave Sydney Books Kinokuniya in the first place, just the manga hobos who hog the stools.
But the manga hobos at Kinokuniya are very neat individuals (And sometimes very NEET individuals, if you excuse the pun), never creasing the manga volumes at all. It’s like they’re neurotically obsessive as I am about not damaging books. Borders on the other hand has no shame instilled in manga hobos…
I HATE THOSE GUYS. Most of the ones at my local Borders are dumb 12-to-16-year-olds who just plop their butts down with the latest volume of Bleach while their clueless suburbanite parents buy overpriced coffee and talk for 3+ hours at the ‘trendy’ coffee shop next door. Honestly, you’re too cheap to buy an $8 book? That sucks, now STFU, GTFO, gb2/b/ and CRY MOAR.
It’s one thing if you flip through the first 10-15 pages to figure out if you’ll like the hot new series that your friend won’t shut up about, but getting entertainment without paying for it is just wrong. Also, I have the messed-up pages/spines problem with the light novels now in addition to the manga.
@Baka: My local bookstores (including B&N) don’t have much sit-down-and-read space, but you’re right; at the very least BE CAREFUL WITH THE FREAKING BOOKS and be considerate of others, dangit.
In doujinshi stores in Japan (yes I know this isn’t about doujinshi), they would print a preview page so people can look at the art. In a certain bookstore in Taiwan, they place a preview copy – yes, an entire book – on the shelf with protective sleeves over the cover for people to try. Neither print preview pages or place preview copies of popular stuff, however.
@dood, @Ten I suppose buying online is nice… but I’d rather go to a store and buy my manga. It has a different atmosphere.
@CCY I may follow this up on a second post. Stay tuned?
@gerjomarty I don’t download or read scanlations so I can’t say anything about that. But I don’t agree with having the whole book available for people to read… or at least a sample copy should be available for people to check out.
@lelangir Heh, I do that for EVERYTHING, not just manga… if most manga were sold in stacks like that, anyway.
@scottfrye I don’t mind people looking at a few pages… but the whole book?
@issa-sa Hm… good idea. The only problem I have with buying used stuff is that… it isn’t new o_o Then again, I have a good amount of used games and heck, my 360 is used.
@Baka Not buying crap because… it’s not worth buying. Not all manga should be bought or even read, I suppose.
@Deranged Wouldn’t most Japanese stores have manga in Japanese though (unless you can read Japanese, which then it’s fine)?
@Asperger’s Anime Blogger Tell him to get off or punch him in the face. I made someone leave the manga aisle and possibly the bookstore once.
@CJ Heh, you summed it up pretty well.
@Ray Doujinshi is different because the art is a highly crucial factor; I doubt most manga readers place a HUGE emphasis on the art. But yeah, a preview copy is best, I think.
I would feel a little guilty if I used Borders as a library and never bought anything…but I do occasionally go and just read a bunch of manga b/c I wouldn’t really buy most action manga that are $10 and only take like 15 minutes to read. I figure as long as you buy something every once in a while that’s why they have big comfy chairs at Borders, so you read and if it’s good you buy it.
I don’t know why people read in the aisles htough…maybe I just have never seen that many people looking at the manga section. But I think I read (somewhere?) that in Japan in general bookstore policy is to let people read in store as much as they want.
As a former musician & songwriter, I have listened to lots of arguments from all sides about the wisdom (or not) of giving art away, and whether or not it hurts or helps artists overall. I realize that your argument here is not exactly the same thing, but I think I end up coming down on the same side as I did when the arguments were about people leeching free music. Personally, I think anything that allows people to get or stay interested in manga is good for manga. People who leech free manga in the aisles of Borders and B&N will go home and talk about manga at school, or online with their friends. Even if that leech ruins one book that he/she will never buy, chances are, some of his/her friends/relatives/co-workers/random eavesdroppers *will*, which may sell two or three books for each one manhandled by the leech. I know I’m always rambling on about the series I love to my friends, in person and online, and while I know some of them head straight for scanlations, or end up standing in the aisles at B&N, more of them have gone out and bought the books for themselves. And now they are telling *their* friends about the same series, inspiring more purchases, and more interest in manga. B&N decided years ago that they could sell more books if they encouraged free reading in the store, and considering that they haven’t changed that policy all this time, I’d say it’s probably going well. So as annoying as the leeches are, blocking the aisles and carelessly handing the books, I think that overall, they are probably helping to fuel the manga business.
I am trying figure out how Icy Storm can justify his complaints at people that read manga in the aisles are leeches when he downloads games and anime for free on the internet.
“It doesn’t remove a product from the shelves.”
That’s exactly the point. There is no exchange going on. You are taking entertainment without paying the people who made it and brought it to you.
Saying “I am not denying the store a sale” is about as shallow an excuse as I can think of. Why should I pay to go to the movies after a movie is on it’s third week? It’s not like the movie is going to sell out or anything, so I am not denying the movie theater a sale. It’s the same logic and it holds just as little water.
Just because stealing off the internet is easy doesn’t make it right.
With your theory that piracy isn’t hurting sales, you must be able to justify your actions for all people to be able to justify them for yourself. What if EVERYONE got their anime for free off the Internet. The anime publishers would go out of business within weeks. Still fill justified in piracy?
This feel a little like a crack smoker berating heroin users for sharing needles. I wouldn’t get too far up on that high horse.
@susieq: This isn’t Japan (at least, not me) =P
@Melinda Beasi: Interesting point; didn’t think too much about this overall. What matters most is what affects me directly in a bookstore.
@JT: To that, I present to you these two links.
Reminds me of the movie Short Circuit. Johnny 5 is virtually every copywriter’s nightmare [and bookstore's]. No matter how hard they try, they lack those leet page-flipping skills.
Really though, there are chairs and tables in most of those bookstores.
The sad thing about production media is that everyone skims (especially the big middle companies). They skim percentages all over the place. Creators and end-users both get screwed. I’m still for the policy: If you love it, if it changes you, if its durable, then support it the best you can.
These days, “really popular” (blockbuster films, pop radio albums) media titles are becoming about as great as condoms, at 20 times the price. Japanese media is a small niche, comparatively, but why is there such a great price margin in purchasing a raw manga than a translation (it’s like $3+)? It just seems a bit off.
If your justification is hipocracy, I can’t argue with that.
@JT: If you want a serious response, I don’t really have one. At least I’m moving toward legitimate means, right? I will buy Aria and Mari-mite soon, followed by some other series. Netflix is highly likely (yay for animez) too.
It’s senseless to nitpick at my post; the point of it is the annoying manga aisle freeloaders, not my anime downloading habits. Manga aisle freeloaders actually annoy: they’re in the damn way and they can potentially ruin or damage the product that is available to purchase.
I don’t really pirate anything else other than obscure music and ROMs (because honestly? Nintendo isn’t going to make money on an Earthbound ROM I download when they don’t even offer it on Virtual Console). Sure, I don’t think piracy is completely right and I’m not trying to completely justify it. But the fact is, not EVERYONE gets their anime for free, so those hypothetical situations are pointless to bring up.
If EVERYONE got there anime for free, there would be no licenced anime in English. The remaining publishers would shut down (and it isn’t like they are flying around in private jets as it is).
I appreciate your candor, IcyStorm. The last thing I was doing was nitpicking. If anything an army of ninja robots large enough to defeat America could walk through the obvious gaping hole in your logic.
You are moving toward legitimate means? Great. Let me know when you get there, and your story will resonate with me. That’s like saying “I am practially done molesting children.” I am happy you are almost there, but you are ALMOST there. Please don’t call yourself an addict (you didn’t but I am just anticipating the same thing I hear the aisle leeches say.)
You can’t completely justify piracy because it isn’t justifiable. Whether you are the only one, or if millions of people do it, it is still the same. More people shoplift than download ROMS. Does that mean shoplifting is more justifiable?
Don’t get me wrong, I agree with your blog post 100%, just not the size of the soapbox you stand on.